Legislature(1999 - 2000)
04/19/2000 01:25 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
SB 294 - CONCEALED HANDGUNS CHAIRMAN KOTT announced that the final order of business would be CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 294(JUD) "An Act relating to the possession of concealed handguns and to concealed handgun permits." [Before the committee is HCS CSSB 294(STA).] PORTIA PARKER, Staff to Senator Green, Alaska State Legislature, informed the committee that she is representing the Senate Judiciary staff who is unavailable due to a family emergency. Ms. Parker pointed out that there are four changes between HCS CSSB 294(STA) and the proposed CS before the committee. The four changes were all requested by the Department of Public Safety (DPS) and are all supported by the bill sponsor, DPS and the National Rifle Association (NRA). The department does not oppose the bill. MS. PARKER, upon the request of Representative Green, reviewed the changes. She informed the committee that the first change is the [requirement] to have only one photograph instead of two. The next change is in regard to the length of time an applicant's photograph is valid. She explained, "We went from only having to do the photograph every other renewal to going to back to 30 days so that you will need a new photograph on the five year renewal." The third change deletes the requirement that an applicant submit the renewal form in person. She explained that the department wants to be able to perform renewals/applications via mail, which would streamline the process. The final change would place the competency requirement back in statute and maintain the current definition of competency, which is found in AS 18.65.792. Number 0876 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG moved that the committee adopt the proposed CS, [labeled LS1543\K, Luckhaupt, 4/17/00], as the working document before the committee. There being no objection, Version K was before the committee. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI recalled that when one's photograph is taken for his/her driver's license, two photographs are taken. She assumed two photographs are taken in order to have one on file for a replacement license. She asked if [the concealed carry permit] would require dual photographs [for the same reason as a driver's license]. MS. PARKER deferred to the department. Number 0930 LIEUTENANT DAVID HUDSON, Department of Public Safety (DPS), testified via teleconference from Anchorage. He explained that one photograph is taken and digitally stored in a computer in order to have an extra photograph without the permittee being required to have two photographs taken. REPRESENTATIVE CROFT requested an explanation regarding the opt-out procedures. He asked if this essentially moves from a state crime to allowing municipalities to define their own crime in that area. MS. PARKER replied no. She explained that this legislation deletes the local opt-out provisions in Title 18 and thus it is a statewide permit like the driver's license. She agreed with Representative Croft's understanding that deleting the caliber and [specific action] type would authorize the [person] to carry any caliber of handgun. However, she pointed out that one must first meet the competency standards and qualify. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN remarked, "I don't like that." He expressed concern in that a person could qualify with a .32 [caliber], but carry a .45 [caliber]; the recoil from a .45 caliber could knock one down. He inquired as to the reasoning for deleting that information. MS. PARKER answered that it seemed unnecessary to include that on the permit as part of qualifying. She pointed out that [the requirement] to qualify with a particular firearm is rare in other states. She indicated that the reasoning behind the change is that it doesn't seem to make any difference in regard to any problems. She believes that the responsibility lies with the individual rather than the state in regard to knowing how to use his/her firearm. REPRESENTATIVE JAMES said she understood Representative Green's concern. However, many of the concealed handgun permits around the nation were never as strict as Alaska, who has had this [process] for five years. Furthermore, the department does not mind if this change is made. Representative James felt that if a person goes to the trouble to obtain a concealed handgun permit, that person will be sure they know how to use the handgun and they are going to be careful. That has been proven in the history of the concealed gun permitting system throughout the nation. She related her belief that people will carry a handgun with which they are comfortable. Representative James was comfortable with this, and furthermore she didn't believe this information on the license was that meaningful. Number 1180 REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA recalled that there used to be many provisions in Title 18 which would allow municipalities to restrict the carrying of a concealed handgun if a local option election was held. She asked if those are all being deleted with this legislation. MS. PARKER replied, "That's correct." REPRESENTATIVE JAMES noted that she was the original creator of the concealed handgun [legislation] and that she was sorry that she included that [opt-out] provision. She informed the committee that she included that [opt-out] provision at the request of a certain Alaska Native group. However, over the history of the concealed carry legislation, there has only been one attempt to override and delete [the opt-out provision]. That attempt occurred in Haines. She said that when there is a concealed handgun permitting system, one can't be concerned with, when crossing [municipal] borders, whether that particular [community] disallows it or not; [the opt- out provision] causes confusion. Therefore, she believes it makes sense to blanket the state. Representative James pointed out that there are still places in which people can post that they don't want [concealed handguns] carried. MS. PARKER indicated that would be correct for private property. Number 1304 REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if currently the permit would note that competency was achieved for a particular caliber. MS. PARKER explained that generally, permittees qualify in the largest caliber and action type in order to carry what he/she wants. Therefore, permittees were qualifying for something larger than he/she wanted to shoot in order to be able to carry anything at any time and not [have to go through the permitting process again]. She pointed out that DPS isn't concerned about this as the department doesn't believe it will change much in regard to how the courses are offered. She pointed out that live fire range is required in every course; "the NRA personal protection course has been requiring this long before we required the course." Therefore, no changes in the course are envisioned as it still has to be approved by the department. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI related her understanding that currently the permit indicates the revolver type and the semi-automatic type. Now, under this legislation, competency won't be listed because one would not be able to obtain a permit without first illustrating competency. Basically, the permit would be similar to a driver's license. MS. PARKER agreed that one would have to passed the competency [test], but it wouldn't appear on the license because passing the competency [test] allows one to obtain a license. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if upon passage of the course, it would indicate what [firearm] was being used or the largest [firearm] that had been practiced with. MS. PARKER replied no. That [information] would not be required by statute. She pointed out that currently, one can openly carry whatever [type] firearm he/she wishes without going to any course. Number 1514 REPRESENTATIVE ROKEBERG noted that he has recently received some complaints regarding a backlog with renewals for permits. He asked if this legislation will help speed up the renewal process. LIEUTENANT HUDSON responded that this legislation will provide assistance in expediting the renewal process. He pointed out that under this change renewal applications can be mailed in and the existing requirement for a thumbprint will no longer be required. Furthermore, processing only one photograph will save time. In further response to Representative Rokeberg, Lieutenant Hudson stated that currently Anchorage is approximately 400 renewals and/or applications behind. Lieutenant Hudson related his belief that this legislation will move in the right direction. He informed the committee that this program began five years ago and in the first nine months, there were 5,000 applications processed. Therefore, 5,000 applications are being renewed along with the continuous new applicants. In response to Representative Kerttula, Lieutenant Hudson estimated that statewide there are approaching 12,000 permits. Number 1731 RAY HALLEY testified via teleconference from Valdez. He noted that he is currently certified to instruct basic pistol, rifle and home firearm safety and he is a range safety officer. Mr. Halley requested the committee's support of this legislation. Although the changes are modest, the improvements are important. He stated that the most important improvement for Alaskans is in the area of allowing reciprocity with other states that allow concealed carry permits. In conclusion, Mr. Halley again requested the committee's support of the legislation and he thanked Representatives Green and James who have supported this in the past. REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked if Representative Green remained concerned with the caliber issue. REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that he was concerned due to his experience when he went to obtain his concealed carry permit. When he went for his permit, he encountered a person that didn't know anything about [their] .32 caliber, which was loaded when the person entered. However, during the [permit] process this person learned how to use the .32 caliber firearm. He said, "But I think that's a far cry from somebody who may now come in with that same lack of ability, qualify with a .32 and then decide she wants to carry a .357 or something else. There is a significant difference. And to have it the hands of somebody who really hasn't shown proficiency in that weapon; I'm a little disturbed about it." REPRESENTATIVE CROFT related his understanding that currently a person who is comfortable with .32 caliber would only qualify with that [caliber weapon]. With practice, the person becomes proficient with a higher caliber gun that he/she wished to carry. In such a case, the person would have to return to the school. However, with the changes, those who have shown a basic proficiency with a weapon measure their own [proficiency]. Representative Croft acknowledged Representative Green's concern, but noted that it didn't make much sense if the competency [requirement] is kept, which is part of the proposed CS. Number 1948 REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI asked if there are any requirements with this permit regarding vision, such as the requirement for a driver's license holder to take a vision test every ten years. She asked if there is anything during the permitting process to illustrate that the person can still shoot and meet the competency [requirement]. MS. PARKER replied no and specified that to be the responsibility of the individual. She noted that it has not been a problem in Alaska or any other state. REPRESENTATIVE MURKOWSKI said that she believes people should have to have their eyes examined. Number 2073 REPRESENTATIVE CROFT moved that the committee report [HCS CSSB 294, Version K,] out of committee with individual recommendations and the attached zero fiscal note. There being no objection, HCS CSSB 294(JUD) was reported from the House Judiciary Standing Committee.
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